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Post by dominodaves on Apr 8, 2015 13:01:41 GMT -6
For those weekend smelters out there, here's what I'm thinking. The weather got really nice and took care of the ice on the big lake for us pretty early this year. Now things have swung the other direction and are running pretty coolish. So the water is warming pretty slowly. This is kind of a good. Because when they do warm it should be a one way direction without too many weather hiccups. So I'm thinking that the weekend of April 17-18 we should be getting some, nothing crazy yet, but ok. April 24-25 should be going pretty well by then and maybe still hanging on pretty decent May 1-2. This is of course up to Mother Nature of course. A strong NE wind could mess up a weekend in a heart beat! And for us that go when the conditions are perfect....we should have a pretty good season!
With the drought on going, the rivers could be a bust this year, or down significantly. We saw this a few years ago with slow flowing rivers and very shallow streams. I'm sure we will get some rain that will help out, but I'm not so sure it will be enough. Too much is bad too. So dippers will be even more flexible than just weekends maybe. I do know that the last 2 years have been awesome! So keeping up with that might be tough.
These kind of dates fall right in the middle of average. We'll take that after the last couple of years!!!
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Post by Fishing dude on Apr 8, 2015 15:38:51 GMT -6
Dominodaves you said the knife had some deep spots, would that make it a better bet for this year or would it still not be very good?
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Post by dominodaves on Apr 8, 2015 16:18:26 GMT -6
I hadn't thought of that. Just maybe. The biggest problem with the knife is mainly access. Getting to mouth area is tough. And the river near the bridge on old 61 has huge boulders in it and has been dug out and rearranged. The mouth has a better contour bottom wise for dipping. But it's 300-400 yards from the road. That's a long ways to be hauling smelt and equipment each way. So if the water is really low this year it might worth checking out the area near the bridge. Up river from the bridge is all private property now and doesn't allow any access. Too bad, because as a kid that was my dads favorite place for catching steelhead and smelt. I spent many nights there in an old blue station wagon. And you good hear the big run of smelt making its way up the river too, lots of hooting and hollering getting closer and closer, then we did too.
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Post by smelter on Apr 8, 2015 20:49:33 GMT -6
Smelt can and will run under the ice. Some years if you wait for the ice to melt you waited too long.
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Post by PZX Fishing Journal on Apr 9, 2015 10:16:14 GMT -6
well the good thing is that we will not have to worry about them running under the ice this year. The ice is all gone now on park point.
I got a question as well, you know how park point is outside of the bay towards the main lake. Do smelt run on the other side of the park, inside the bay?
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Post by dominodaves on Apr 9, 2015 12:01:41 GMT -6
Excellent point made on the ice!! The ice left as late as I've ever seen it last year on Superior. And we had one of the best years ever on the Point, and the Lester too. I do know of a few circumstances where they will, but the Duluth area seems to do very well regardless of when the ice leaves.
Last year, I did some poking around on the harbor side of the Point with my son before the ice left the outside of it. We were worried with such a late ice out that maybe we were missing the run. We found a couple spots to make some pulls and only caught some very small smelt and a number of shiners and other minnows. The waters get pretty deep pretty quick in there. It's not like the beach side. But I do know that the smelt do make it into the harbor area and up the St Louis River and into the streams that feed it. The creek, Kingsbury, flows out from under the Zoo is a good example of this. I know that some people have had very good luck there over the years. I have never been there, so I'm only reporting 2nd hand. However, looking at the satellite maps of that area. You can clearly see a nice little parking lot and paths leading to the creek. So I have no reason to doubt the reports. Another spot that looks interesting would be on the WI side. They have a river, Nemadji, that flows into the WI Point area that looks very promising. It seems to have some small accesses to it in areas too. I wonder if anyone out there would care to offer up any info on that river?
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Post by elduderino on Apr 9, 2015 14:05:18 GMT -6
Going down to park point this weekend. My hopes aren't too high, still a bit too cold, but I'll let you all know how it goes.
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Post by captainkirkduluth on Apr 9, 2015 15:50:11 GMT -6
If you want to believe that smelt are running under the ice go ahead, but everything I've ever seen or read says they don't. Take the past two years for example: great smelting despite record late ice out.
I clearly remember last year someone brought that up (you can check last years thread if you like)and I called BS. What happened - we went smelting anyway and we had one of the best seasons we've ever had.
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Post by dominodaves on Apr 10, 2015 7:29:52 GMT -6
Ok, I wasn't planning on bringing this up, but I will. Last year was a historic late ice event. Many of us were very nervous about missing the run entirely. And talk of smelt running under the ice made us all that much more anxious. Now I have heard of people cutting lanes with chainsaws in the ice so they could run seines and say they have done very well. I had my doubts. I also have heard of others running their seines right next to ice packs and doing well. I had my doubts. So last year, a guy invites me out to show me exactly where and how this was all happening. Of course the locations are sworn to secrecy. And to my amazement, we worked a seine together along an ice pack and caught a fair amount of smelt. My mind had a hard time wrapping itself around the situation. But none the less, we did catch smelt!
We should clarify what smelt "running" means. I believe that the smelt we caught in that situation were there because they were there. Were they feeding as a school? Not sure, but maybe. Were they there because they were spawning? I don't think so, the egg sacks seemed pretty tight yet, but do to the time of the year of spring, they had plenty of eggs. So I really don't know why for sure. But I do know this, they were there and we did catch them! Obviously, fish live under ice. But just because you catch a bunch near an ice pack doesn't necessarily mean they are spawning, and I think that the majority of us believe "running" is spawning. Therefore, we have a hard time believing this happens when phrased in this way. But I want to be clear, I have seen it personally. And I have also heard of many inland lakes up north that this does happen in, of course I've been skeptical. But not anymore.
I just don't think we really have to worry about it anyway. Captain Kirk is absolutely correct. The last 2 years were very very late smelt seasons. And it didn't matter! When the ice left, the waters warmed, the smelt came in, and we did very very well! And didn't miss anything!!
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Post by smelter on Apr 10, 2015 8:13:08 GMT -6
Kirk, Since you are the resident smelt expert please let us know what day and time the run will start on park point. I would like an exact time so I can plan my day accordingly. Also need exact specifics on the Lester and since you are an expert the times and dates for the rest of the rivers up the North Shore.
Truth is if you think the smelt will not run under the ice your a googan smelter and an idiot in terms of smelt knowledge. In case you didn't catch that AN IDIOT...
Some peoples children.
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Post by PZX Fishing Journal on Apr 10, 2015 11:38:30 GMT -6
Smelter, I think you should not troll, this is a great place to learn and give oppinion and report, but I dont think anyone of us appreciate the negative thoughts.
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Post by Walleyeslayer on Apr 10, 2015 13:31:04 GMT -6
Kirk,
Don't pay no attention to this no name smelter guest guy. He is here just to cause trouble. Thanks again for all the info!
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Post by Mn stp on Apr 10, 2015 15:14:54 GMT -6
What a kid, keep if to yourself.
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Post by smelter on Apr 10, 2015 15:14:55 GMT -6
LOL, You guys are funny, really crack me up! For 50+ years people have spoke about smelt running under the ice. Not saying they run under the ice every year but smelt being very opportunistic (you kids can look up definition) can and will run under the ice, its simple smelt facts.
Is the DNR the smelt authority? If you believe what they say you'll be lucky to catch the tail end of the run. Most on here would agree with that. Truth is most DNR dislike smelt in Superior as they are non native and believe they greatly disrupt the lakes ecosystem.
Years ago my wife had a customer who was a captain on Superior who said in a few years the smelt will be out of Superior. Will not go into details but the last 2 years were a lot better than the previous 2 years in Superior.
Here's some more smelt facts that surely Kirk will disagree with... There are runs on Superior that rival runs from the smelt hey day. Smelt can and will run during the day.
It's sort of funny if you think about it. Many people over the years have witnessed large smelt runs near ice packs. People have seined thousands of pounds running right along ice packs in shallow water near shores and rivers. Are the smelt feeding? Most likely not. In 365 days how many days are smelt in waste deep water? What time of the year are smelt in waste deep water? If you look at the facts its quite simple really... Smelt move in shallow water to spawn or in smelters lingo run.
Now you get one guy who swears up and down smelt will not run under the ice and I'm a troll because I call him out on it, lol!
I hope everyone has a safe & prosperous smelt season with many buckets and coolers full.
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Post by captainkirkduluth on Apr 10, 2015 16:12:28 GMT -6
Well... didn't intend to spiral this forum into negativity. Anyway, sorry to be short, but every year someone tells me that "they spawned under the ice" because the smelt aren't in. It gets old.
Same thing with fishing and deer hunting... always a group screaming that the sky is falling, regardless of whether it is or not.Typically these are the guys who sit around the bar and don't actually get out.
I agree with Domino's assessment on catching smelt in ice pack. Maybe there are really unique circumstances where some spawning occurs under floating ice cover, but it certainly is far from common. But hey, if you want to believe they spawned out under the ice and throw in the towel now, please do so. Hell, with all you know about smelt, you should really spend your spring writing the book on 'em. I'll be out drinking beer on the beach and catching smelt.
Anyway, who's getting out this weekend?
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